Nathan James Geopolitical pundit and blogger.
China’s military is already more advanced than Japan’s military.
Does Japan have any supercarriers? Nope. China is about to complete construction on her first supercarrier, the Type 003, this year. China is the only other nation on earth capable of building supercarriers.
Does Japan have hypersonic missile technology? Nope. China has working hypersonic missile technology (Russia does, too), while USA is still struggling with this.
Does Japan have indigenous stealth technology? Nope. Japan has to buy F-35s from the US, yes, the same F-35s that tend to fall into the ocean. Japan has its own stealth program but it isn’t bearing fruit yet.
China’s J-20 is a fantastic stealth fighter.
China has the largest and most modern navy in the world. What does Japan have?
Japan has the US. Japan, by pretending to be a loyal and docile ally of the US and by hyping up the China threat to the US, has been manipulating the US to counter China and eventually to make the US and China fight each other.
Also to buy more US bonds so that US can continue to print more money they don’t have .
“China has the largest and most modern navy in the world. What does Japan have?”
Japan has a pretty sophisticated whaling fleet. Don't underestimate their hypersonic harpoons mate.
I don’t know if you realize this, but jet engines typically aren’t designed to ingest birds.
I don’t think Chinese Navy is in any way the largest/most modern comparing to USA’s Navy force, if you really want to compare. I mean points taken there is a big improvement for PLAN from recent years, U.S just has way more advantages overall in terms of technology and experiences, given that U.S just started everything way earlier and has been committed into overseas missions for a very long time.
Regarding hypersonic missiles, points taken that China is ahead on this probably before anyone else, but successfully launching a few isn’t equivalent to being able to hit the target every time in real, and much complex scenarios. Kinda similar examples is North Korean, that even if they have the nuclear weapon it will still take them years to be able to launch one onto places that are not a couple hundred kms away, left alone going through the advanced air/missile defense etc. So it will also take time for PLA to equip with the missiles and even more time for PLAN to adopt it. Basically, there is no real military advantage China currently process on this matter, yet. (not a put down, just describing the facts)
Also, Japan is generally considered to have the ability to build aircraft carriers when it has to build. It’s that their law prohibits them of actually building one, but they can still possess that technology. I wouldn’t say Japan is too far off from PLAN in terms of technology capability, if not equivalent or better as a result. Again, points taken that PLAN currently is more advanced in this matter judging by what they have now.
I think the United already has hypersonic missles, they just don't brag about them. The United States has always been this way. Russia, China, North Korea always has parades to show off their weapons. You don't see the United States doing that. Those nations are scared of the United States and the technology they have. I worked with the Chinese and their equipment is junk.
Well, then what you think is wrong.
U.S recently had a few hypersonic missiles test failures (Dec 2021). U.S is definitely behind on this, maybe not by too much.
Parades is a mixed thing with cultural impact. It’s like U.S have Disney parades and people is other parts of world might think it’s stupid. Of course it is also a national pride related thing and Americans don’t really need it (because people know well enough they are so much ahead of anyone else). But U.S does it too (search Bastille Day parade)
Given U.S is behind on the hypersonic missiles, it’s contradictory to say Russia/China steals that. In the realism perspective, U.S is so good in military mainly due to continuously much heavier investment in the well structured military industry compared to others. When applying same logic you would understand why China is catching up a bit as they run a state capitalism where they can concentrate state power to certain military domains, thus achieve good progress in a short time. Same applies to Russia who is very heavily relying on big military budget within a shrinking economy.
The U.S advantage in military won’t be changed by anyone in a pretty long time. It makes U.S most secured country in the world and allows U.S government to do silly things around world and get away every time. People need to live with that.
For the 60 second it takes for flight from China to USA junk destroys thing too, they are built to be destroyed so as long as it can do large destruction it wont matter if it cost 100,000 or 1 billion.
For starts USA already knows over 30% of their navy ships are being decommissioned as i speak, plus the 1 trillion a year on warfare can not get new ones built for another 10 years. China can build 10 times faster than USA and pay 10 times less. China could have a army 2 times larger than USA in 3 years with only 500 billion in total.
Having visited several time there is no need to panic about China, it’s still a 3rd world country, travel in to the countryside and you won’t believe the poverty, it’s awful
China is the largest navy in the world by naval assets but most modern? Doubt it.
China has nothing unique. It’s all stolen technology. And you know this.
China has nukes, Japan doesn't (even though it has nuked itself at Fukushima). China has an advanced space program, space station and space exploration, Japan doesn't. Enough said.
There are exceptions but the Chinese military is already a more technologically advanced military. The Chinese equipment below are all more advanced than their Japanese counterparts or do not have a counterpart in Japan at all. And Japanese indigenous military equipment is heavily American at the level of subsystems.
Loke Seng Onn
And most likely the Japanese command still uses fax machines…
Their civilian administrations do after all. The military may have followed the developments better but Japan is a nation mostly stuck at the 1990s when it comes to management.
I don’t believe the Japanese build any of their military stuff right? Some is licensed so built in Japan but controlled and designed in the US. And they buy most of their stuff from the US.
Japan is actually quite independent at platform level. But they don’t have an indigenous 5th gen fighter and as you said they import a lot of the subsystems from the USA. For example just look at this ship, their latest destroyer:
Maya-class destroyer - Wikipedia
Engine: GE LM2500 (Manufactured in Japan though)
Air surveillance and tracking radar: AN/SPY-1 series
Surface and low altitude search: AN/SPQ-9 series
Radar illuminator: AN/SPG-62
Gun fire control: Mark 46 optical and radar director and Mark 160 fire control system.
Underwater combat management: AN/SQQ-89
Central combat management: AEGIS
Gun: Mark 45
Decoy launcher system: Mark 137
Air defense: SM-2, SM-3, SM-6, ESSM
Vertical launcher: Mark 41
Helicopter: Modified Seahawk
火炮火控: Mark 46光学及引导雷达和 Mark 160火控系统
机枪: Mark 45
诱饵弹发射系统: Mark 137
垂直发射器: Mark 41
That’s basically all US made systems…lol.
But the important thing is that they are just as susceptible to hypersonic missiles as US ships. All Japanese ships are well within firing range of Chinese hypersonic missiles.
And I don’t believe that Japan can build more ships than China can build more missiles.
And those SM-3 SM-6. I don’t have reports on the SM-6 because the US classified them. But the SM-3, last unclassified report showed that the hit rate was 50% using drones not actual supersonic missiles fired at the ship.
The US has been studying what to do with saturation attacks. But personally I think it’s useless. You only have so much ammo on a ship. China can simply fire more missiles than you have counter missiles. The ship is then dead. The paper did not say how to prevent that. And US bases are thousands of miles away so can’t reload.
Has there actually been a record of a hypersonic missile hitting a moving naval vessel? Definitely not something the US has but like… at all?
If we are talking about true hypersonics which means hypersonic cruise missiles or hypersonic gliders, there is only Zircon from Russia. And it is not operational yet.
If are we are referring to the Chinese anti-ship ballistic missiles yes, the DF-26B and DF-21D did hit moving objects. The most famous of those tests in the one done in 2020.
Pentagon calls China's test of DF-21D and DF-26 anti-ship missiles 'destabilizing'
The vessel was moving at 35 knots and is estimated to have a displacement around 20000 tons.
It was more of a show of force rather than a development test. China declared a public NOTAM about the test before it happened. The DF-21D and DF-26B were launched from different regions of China and were arranged to arrive simultaneously.
Sorry I guess I should have specified in a combat situation. But I presume since the Russians are the only ones who “have it”, we will never see it actually used in a combat situation.
By moving vessel, I meant a vessel actively trying to dodge the missiles. A test run doesn’t really show that sort of prowess.
Naval warfare is almost completely devoid of real combat data. For example did you know no guided torpedo was ever launched in combat?
Mong Seng Quek
That can never be proven. China is not at war with any country presently and since 1979.
Japan’s problem is that they’re legally barred from exporting weapons of any kind, even handguns.
This means that any weapon they develop domestically can only be uses by the small JSDF. This makes the per-unit cost for Japanese military hardware super expensive, usually the most expensive in the world.
I want to see Japan keep up with China in Ships. This is like the 1980s USSR trying to keep up with the US military spending. They went bankrupt and failed.
Don’t forget it keeps the US happy with Japanese buying equipment junk and paying rent on their own land in Okinawa
Okinawa is Chinese land that the US stole and “gave” to Japan. Sooner or later stolen land will return to their rightful owner.
Why don’t you petition your government to stop trading with China? Tell them to kick out all Chinese factories.
Align with the US. Sign a treaty to let the US build bases in Vietnam and host US soldiers.
Some of them would prefer to swim in US feces than in China water! Very smart people!
Japan would need to spend a lot more to keep up with China. It only costs China $800 million for each type 055 and $500 Million for each type 052D. Japan’s destroyers cost $1.5 Billion but they were built decades ago. So in today’s dollars, it is at least as much as US destroyers.
Each Arleigh Burke is $2 Billion. Japan would need to spend around $800 Billion to keep up. I want to see that.
Japan would collapse under their debts if they tried. In fact, they’re already on the brink as it is.
Hahahahahahahaha..buying American junk. Like China buying Russian junk. All junks.
It is a common narrative in China that the US is selling downgraded and/or old stuff to its allies. It is true for some countries but I am not sure about Japan’s purchases.
Oh Japan buys junk from US while your own super weapons you copied from Russia is superior. Why not start the war as you are all over the internet bragging about a super weight China. Please start the war and let's see how good your equipment is. Pride goes before a fall like it is already showing in Ukraine and yours will be worse.
Not true. They have their own indigenous designed weapons. That includes fighters, ships to even assault rifles.
Surface fleets already excellent and remarkable. Hopefully ASW and Submarine forces will have their own breakthrough.
They probably had a breakthrough to a degree. Most of the public opinion on China’s subs left from the mid-2000s. They were really hideously loud back then. Looking at China’s development of radars and optical sensors it is hard to imagine sonars were left behind.
It never ceases to amuse me how westoids still see Japan as a tech leader. Like, when was the last time Sony made a ground breaking product? They’re one of the smallest players in the smartphone business even after Trump cockblocked the Chinese manufacturers. In other emerging techs like drones, AI, 5G, the Japanese are completely absent.
Most current Westerners were young children during the golden era of Japan. Impressions you make during those years hardly change.
The Chinese military is already more advanced them the JSDF.
All of the best equipment is Russia so I very much doubt that
Dude, you need to updat your data, Type003 Aircraft carrier, Electromagnetic ejection, Type 055 destroyer, all-electric propulsion system, J20 stealth fighter, H20 stealth bomber, come from Russia?
Some of the equipment are either based of Soviet designs or reverse engineered, that said, they are getting better, but they have ways to go to be better than what Japan has for the time being.
China’s military hardware started becoming original just a decade ago or so. This has a lot to do with low human capital prior to that and the plethora of Soviet licenses that the Chinese military industry started around.
What I am stating is the recent Chinese hardware is more capable than the recent Japanese hardware. Chinese hardware is also not reliant on foreign nations.
The Japanese defense industry has a lot smaller R&D budget compared to the American one. They wouldn’t be able to reach the same levels of performance except in products that they specialize in. I think most American allies including advanced ones like the UK and Japan would field significantly less capable hardware if they couldn’t buy subsystems or platforms from the USA.
I think they also manage it by buying from each other, a lot of European subsystems are from each other, such as British sonar and sights often coming From Thales. Japan is indeed overly reliant on American subsystems, and seemingly hasn't really cared until the recent challenger in China.
China is still reliance is just now disappearing, as all but their highest end hardware is now indigenous. Their stuff like the HHQ-9 isn't politically reliant on Russia but to get anything more advanced they couldn't procure it domestically. It really has shifted dramatically in the past couple years, most apparently with the WS-10, finally freeing China from reliance on Russia. It wasn't that they couldn't have cut relaicne earlier, but it was more that they had a level advancement in kind and would start domestically until they reached that level.
中国的依赖正在逐渐消失，除了最高端的硬件外，其他硬件都是本土的。他们的 HHQ-9 等产品在政治上并不依赖于俄罗斯，但要获得更先进的东西，国内就没有了。在过去的几年里，中国确实发生了巨大的变化，最明显的是 WS-10，最终使中国摆脱了对俄罗斯的依赖。这并不是说他们不能更早地减少联系，而是说他们在实物上有了一个水平的进步，并开始在国内应用，直到他们达到这个水平。
I always wondered how they managed this with a smaller budget than the US, and while PPP plays a part it isn't a big as many think, then it hit me. They allocate a much larger percentage of their budget to R&D and weapons procurement than the west or really anyone. This explains why that despite the vast increase in on paper military power, they've made relatively little moves on the world stage. They don't yet have the ability to supply their vast force beyond their local area. This is why you see pristine Chinese warships and rusted American ones. Bothe sides have used this to detract from the other, saying that Chinese ships are just for show, and Americans ones are derelict. Neither of these are true, it is simply that America uses their warships extensively while the Chinese are dedicating resourfes to build up their force, and one they do in maybe 10 years they then will start to move towards power projection.
Aside from a little ways to go in amphibious assault they pretty much have the ability to if not subjugate Taiwan then at the very least perform a complete naval blockade, and succeed.
Taiwan war, if it ever happens, will be decided by the airforce and civilian vessel mobilization capabilities. China’s amphibious assault capabilities rest on paramilitary assets like large civilian ferries the government owns.
I don’t see China going in the way of force projection as the US does. I’d argue even the US is not benefiting from that.
There's an argument to be made, though force projection is still a must for a world power, you are correct that China will never have to project the way the US does, only in the Indo Pacific. As for Taiwan I was simply using it as a guage for Chinese military power in the point I was making.
I can’t see how the Chinese military is more advanced than Japan. Japan uses American made military equipment which is number 1. Chinese uses Russia equipment and we see how well it performs.
“American made military equipment which is number 1. “
Not in everything.
“Chinese uses Russia equipment “
Wrong. This trope refuses to die despite being almost totally wrong. The vast majority of China’s equipment is from domestic production.
“we see how well it performs”
There are many more variables to the performance of a military than the equipment. And even the best equipment becomes outdated in 10–20 years if it's not modernized. Equipment capability boils down to money after all and the Chinese military’s budget is like 8 times Japan’s if adjusted for the PPP. Russia is suffering from a lack of modernized equipment and media propaganda does a very good job of hiding Ukrainian losses. Considering that Ukraine is losing territory despite numerical superiority their losses must be as high as Russia’s at least.
Well the Americans aren’t exactly exporting their most advanced equipment to Japan are they? Japan doesn’t have the latest American submarines nor do they have access to the F22 or latest (although a failure) Zumwalt ships.
We have always believed Russian components to be only slightly behind western counterparts. But look what happened.
I’m curious, as to why you decided to go with the Type 055 Destroyer as your first picture. I mean, the others I can kinda understand (although I would have interpreted those others as areas where the JSDF doesn’t even try to compete), but I would have thought the Maya class destroyers Japan is building as representing the cutting edge of what most contemporary navies.
What is more advanced about the Type 055, vs. the Maya class?
A lot of things actually. The Type 055 has dual-band AESA to start with. The Maya only has a single band PESA. Also:
* 1 Helicopters vs 2 helicopters
* 96 VLS + 8 box launcher vs 112 much larger VLS
* Hull sonar vs hull sonar + variable depth sonar + towed array sonar
* 68,000 hp vs 150,000 hp for propulsion + 40,000 hp for power generation
* 1架直升机 vs 2架直升机
* 96个垂直发射系统(VLS) + 8个箱式发射器 vs 112个大得多的垂直发射系统
* 舰壳声呐 vs 舰壳声呐 + 变深声纳 + 拖曳线列阵声纳
* 68,000马力 vs 150,000马力的动力系统 + 40,000马力的发电系统
Fair enough. Points 1, 2 and 4 I would have chalked up to the Type 055 being a bigger ship (they have the same top speed). The thing about the AESA radar, I blame the US, haha, for not supplying newer AEGIS radars fast enough.
Don't forget that PRC has nuclear subs.
Nice pictures but do they work as advertised.
William PY Liew
Since post WWII, economically & militarily, the U.S.A has got Japan by the balls which has since progressed to the heart & other vital organs, and now to the heart. Japan is basically a cyborg to the U.S.A and will do exactly what it is told/programmed to do.
American equipment is vastly more advanced than Chinese equipment. This, if Japan uses primarily us equipment, it is therfore much more advanced than China.
John Hoh Interested in many military matters, especially British
Chinese Military as a whole is probably a fair bit more advanced than the Japanese Military on a whole.
A lot of their equipment was Russian designed or made in the 90s and the 80s, the equipment they did make was mostly first or second generation stuff. Things that were never on par with anything the Soviets or the US had and not much on par with what the Japanese had during the 90s and early 2000s.
However, China has shown itself to produce some fairly advanced military equipment. Their new line of tanks such as ZTZ-99s do, on paper, appear to be quite effective. Although they lack the kind of armour on American tanks, they’re much lighter and more mobile strategically. This fits with the Chinese Army’s needs as they have forces ranging from the relative plains of the north to the more mountainous areas on the borders with Nepal. Chinese fire control systems have always been called into question, before ZTZ-99A2 they were considered subpar to contemporary ones in the US, however, the 1A45T Fire Control System employed on ZTZ-99A2 does, reportedly, give it capabilities on par with 3rd Generation Tanks such as M1A2 SEP v3 or Leopard 2A7+.
Japanese Tanks are quite advanced, Type 90 and Type 10 are quite capable tanks in their own right. Both, however, are limited in their protection and mobility due to Japan’s strategic limitations. Type 10 has certainly got worse armour than ZTZ-99 or ZTZ-96, that’s because Japan’s bridges cannot hold too much weight and thus Japan has had to create more advanced armour compounds. The Type 10s FCS is certainly on par with the ZTZ-99A2, Type 90 is reportedly to lack a hunter-killer mode which certainly hampers its abilities, I would put it around ZTZ-96B, mostly because it also reportedly lacks the hunter-killer capability.
然而，中国已经证明自己生产了一些相当先进的军事装备。他们的新系列坦克，如ZTZ-99，从纸面上看起来相当有用。虽然它们没有美国坦克上的装甲，但是它们更轻，战略上更灵活。这符合中国军队的需要，因为中国军队的兵力范围从北方的相对平原到与尼泊尔接壤的多山地区。中国的火控系统一直受到质疑，在ZTZ-99A2之前，中国的火控系统被认为落后于美国的当代火控系统，然而，据报道，ZTZ-99A2上使用的1A45T火控系统使其能力与第三代坦克相当，如M1A2 SEP v3或Leopard 2A7+。
The Chinese have overlooked Japan economically and militarily. China can put Japan out of existence literally if she dares to try to test Chinese patience.
It's the U.S. military that is concerned about being behind in judging her rapid military growth in recent years and the technology that is so on the cutting edge that China might turn the U.S. military hardware into a pile of metal junk. The hypersonic missile can travel 30 times the speed of sound reaching NY city in 15 minutes from somewhere in China.
That's the reality of the 21st century.
China is already more advanced than Japan militarily, way more advanced and powerful , nearly as powerful as the Americans.
Jiangjunling lives in China
Now that it's 2022,
You can't compare Japan to China in the military field,
China is already more advanced and comprehensive than Japan.
It depends on if they do something dumb. If they stay cool and don’t start any conflicts they will outstrip Japan’s blue water advantage. China has a current defensive advantage and Japan an offensive one, having more carriers that are not prototypical, and very very good surface vessels (absolutely better than China’s, even better than the United States in some respects). In ten years though, I think China will handily surpass Japan.
2022: The Chinese Military (PLA) is already one of the most modern and advanced military power in the world. Some say Russia is rank #2, however I do not share the same sentiment. The Russian military is from WWII era and their newest equipment such as the T-14 Armanta MBT, the SU-57 stealth fighter, among other newer military development have been met with numerous delays and setbacks and Russia simply do not have the industrial capacity to build these equipment in large numbers.
China on the other hand is not only the most industrialized nation on earth, but it does not worry about money problem. At. All.
In terms of military designs and capabilities, China already exceeds that of Russia (but it is also thanks to the Soviet Union/Russia for laying the foundation for China to become an idigenous military power.
China today, can build every piece of military equipment on its on. China's R&D is 2nd only after US (or so it is said). From the most advanced and modern destroyers (Type 055), J-20 and J-31 5th gen stealth fighters, aircraft carriers, missiles (China's missile power is #1 in the world, with many countless military developments.
Japan? Best to hide under the US skirt.