You are right. They havent had a war for 40 years and have no experience of a modern war
But what exactly is a Modern war and who has experience of a Modern war?
The First and Closest semblance to a Modern War in the last 69 years is currently in Ukraine
The Last “Full War” was between China and USA / N.Korea and S.Korea
The Rest of the Wars have been Skirmishes or Attrition Campaigns or Invasions against Goatherders or Sanctioned Iraqis. Basically Blatant and Flagrant bullying.
So when you look at China - you see the Big 4 that is crucial in a Modern War:-
* Supply Line
* Rate of Replenishment of Ammunition and Equipment
* Domestic Economy
Thats what you need in a Modern War - Not Brave Soldiers like a Hollywood Film
China has Ample of all the Four.
China has all its Reserves Chock Full of Oil and is refining Diesel at record rates. Even US Experts admit China can bring in 2.6 Million Gallons (8 Million Liters) of Diesel every day to the Front line across 1700 Kms.
Plus Ammo, Plus Food
They have Bridges, Roads, Rail, Containers and Air Cover from S-400s and other Anti Missile Defense Systems.
China can replenish its stocks of Ammo and Equipment almost entirely indigenously
Sure the Chipsets for the Advanced Missiles may need Western Technology but China has enough reserves. However most other Missiles are entirely made in China from the Raw Materials to the Casing to the Chipset and Electronics.
Even US cannot do this as today US needs Czech Republic, Slovenia, Germany and Switzerland in addition to itself to be able to replenish all its Ammo and Equipment at Chinas rate or Russias Rate.
Plus US needs Antimony from Russia and China for its ammo
China has a very Strong Domestic Economy
They are food secure for 30 Months and their Seeds are indigenous which means like Russia - they can grow their Grain with zero interruption.
The RMB is very stable and like the Ruble - China wisely decided to keep it in a Limited Market and Non Convertible and free from any external disruptions for more than maybe 2 months tops.
Of Course Logistics
From Simple Boots to Field Glasses to Kevlar - China can produce enough for 6 Million Soldiers a Day on Advanced War Footing. No Country comes even close.
If India goes to War, India can perhaps make 10% of these things at Thrice the Time and depend entirely on Imports for the rest of the stuff. We can perhaps make enough for 200K Soldiers on Advanced War Footing with Bulk of the Components Imported (Ironically from China) or Bulk of the Equipment Imported.
In a Modern War - Thats the Key
Since both sides have Anti Aircraft Defense and Missile Defense - Aerial Combat - all these F-22s or J-20s or JF-17s or Dassault Rafales will not make the slightest Impact on any Country with significant Anti Aircraft / Missile Defense power (US,UK, Japan, China, India, Pakistan, France)
It will be Troops onthe Ground and LOGISTICS
And China has The Best of the Big FOUR after Russia
So i am pretty sure Chinese Army packs a Powerful punch and can defeat any Country in a Sustained War as long as its not Russia.
Even US can only draw a Totally Committed Naval War against China. On Land US will lose and On Air it will be a Stalemate.
由于双方都有防空和导弹防御能力，空战中——所有这些 F-22或 J-20或 JF-17或阵风都不会对任何拥有强大防空/导弹防御能力的国家(美国、英国、日本、中国、印度、巴基斯坦、法国)产生丝毫影响
All of China's military chips are made in China, including every chip used in missiles and space capsules. What China lacks is the manufacture of mobile phone chips with higher precision over 7 nanometers for civil use. However, any country's military chips give priority to reliability, and will not use chips made of the highest order at all.
You don’t need 5nm chips for phones. The power saving is no where near enough to make any difference. The biggest power draw is the display.
And improved CPU performance is due to the next generation design. There was a big difference from 46nm to 24nm. From 7nm to 5nm, not so much.
The fight will be in the Western Pacific where China has literally no logistic train. Whereas the US will only have what it on the US ships.
After about an hour, the fight will be over.
China’s ground and airborn radars can detect stealth aircraft. The US can too so this is a wash.
The problem for the US is that Chinese air to air missiles have double the range of US missiles. So before the F-35 gets into range, China will have shot down most if not all US stealth aircraft.
And yes, China can detect and shoot down F-22.
So to sum it up. China can kill US ships out to 1.500 miles of the Chinese coast. Which is way beyond US airplane range.
If the US uses air refueling, they will be shot down. China can shoot down US stealth aircraft before they even get close enough to attack anything.
China proved this earlier this year when 2 J-20 intercepted 2 F-35s over the East China Sea. The F-35 still couldn’t find the J-20s.
Reason for this is that the Awac can detect and upload data to the BVR missiles. There does NOT need to be a missile lock.
And the J-20s have a much bigger radar then the F-35 so even if it was dependent on missile lock from the aircraft they can still do it before the F-35 can see the J-20 on radar.
And China has literally thousands of supersonic anti-ship missiles. More than enough to destroy US ships without the hypersonic missiles.
What do you call a ship that has run out of ammo? A big fat target.
I think missile range is 1500 km, not miles.
DF-36 is 4,000 Km. DF-21 is 1,100 miles or 1,700 Km.
The other stuff will be carried by planes, drones, or bombers.
In the naval it's sheer missile imbalance that China has as an added advantage that it worries the US. Moreover it's their home turf.
An adult cannot increase combat experience if he fights with a schoolboy. So I don't think the U.S. Army has more combat experience than the Chinese army, because they have been beating up countries much weaker than him over the years
Many US soldiers in Iraq were students in their early 20s who could not afford to pay college debt.
Hu Shi Xiong
Better than nothing.
The patrols and sudden encounters likely allow some trained infantry reaction.
Not sure if that makes a huge difference in modern warfare
The fight with the US will be a missile battle to sink the US Navy. The US will be trying not to get sunk. No infantry will be involved.
By now, I would say almost 100% of military chips are domestically made.
I have heard horror stories about Serbia’s missiles with American chips in the formal Yugoslavia during NATO bombing mysteriously failed in large numbers, and that that many of their radars simply stopped functioning during that critical time.
It was a wake up call for the Chinese, and they’ve spend a lot of money and effort to come up with the domestic equivalent.
When I talked to the few people I know, they openly admit that most of the domestic stuff is not at the US level in terms of size, functionalities, power consumption, and obscure requirements like radiation/heat protection. While inferior, they said there is no longer a “generation gap” between the domestic and foreign made product in MOST of their weapon systems.
The French did the same during the Falklands war. Margaret Thatcher went to the French after the UK ship was sunk. She got the codes for the French made Exocet missiles. Turned them off.
Never trust stuff made by the West if you even might end up fighting them or your stuff will get turned off.
On air f22s and f35s will decimate chinese air force in 2–3 days.
Hmm. But I am really sad that Chinese army are compared with female armies of West (Based on talks with several army personal across the globe, not my opinion). And frankly speaking, all these factors really dont work in short intense war. Its courage and good strategy which actually matters.
And in actual combat, several factors also play role. But I repeat, China is just potent enough to save its territory, they cannot wage a war againat any country.
Sir, i think the question was different. China has not fought a war in many decades. China also doesnt have any active insurgency so its troops dont get to go around killing trained people with weapons (unlike the Indian army which deals with well trained, well armed insurgents operating in half of India).
Yes, China has thousands of tanks, missiles, jets etc - but a gameplan on how to use it offensively or defensively is critical. War exercises and simulations work only to a certain extent, the real thing is when there are thousands of tanks on the other side trying to kill you.
The US/NATO has engaged with real enemies a lot, China hasn’t.
I think you are grossly underestimating battle ground experience. Do you seriously think Chinese commanders would know better than Indian soldiers how to fight an offensive war at 5000+ mtr heights?
China for sure has a huge edge in its supply chain and hardware - but the lack of real time experience is a definite drawback too.
India can't even handle it's own country or people let alone others, let alone china.. The reason china has no insurgency is because they cleaned them all up in the past and are competent at governance and administrion, same reason china has domestic production capabilities in civil to military while India has neither, and 5x economy size. Do I need to say more?
India loses its top military official just from air accidents, military is called in and loses people trying to do rescue from helicopter and you watch people drop when the rope snaps or they can't hold it properly(good planning and execution huh?) they even launched a nuclear capable missile “by accident" into Pakistan. Build tank, jet and engine for 30–40 years and still got nothing to show for it(again good planning and execution?). it's incompetence all around in basically everything. That's supposed to be a credible and respectable power on world stage? Haha please.. only other indians will beleive such things.
“but a gameplan on how to use it offensively or defensively is critical”
Lol. India teaching china on planning and execution? Haha good one. Actions and results and current day reality speaks for itself. China has fought nuclear superpower usa(and 17 other UN countries) and Russia and India and all prevailed. India has no such experience like korean war. China India border skirmish is not even real total war.
印度仅仅因为空难就失去了最高军事官员，军队被召来，然而尝试从直升机上进行救援的人也遇难了，你能看到他们在绳子断裂或者抓不稳绳子的时候掉下来(良好的计划和执行力，嗯？) 他们甚至“不小心”向巴基斯坦发射了一枚可携带核弹头的导弹。建造坦克，喷气式飞机和发动机需要30-40年，仍然一无所获(再次良好的计划和执行力？) 基本上在所有方面都是无能的。在世界舞台上这是一个值得信赖和尊敬的大国吗？哈哈，拜托... 只有其他印度人才会相信这种事。
“The US/NATO has engaged with real enemies a lot“You mean Afghan guerrillas hiding in the mountains
agree with your analysis. however you left out another part of modern war- nuclear war
In the Russian-Ukrainian war, the United States stayed far away and did not dare to face the Russian army directly!
Has the United States fought a war with a great power in the past 40 years? It also has no experience fighting wars with great powers!!!
One thing to remember: Bullying weak countries and war on terror will not add any experience to the military confrontation between great power, but will damage the ability to fight high-intensity operations and face large-scale wars!
The war on terror is only the work of the armed police force in China, and does not require PLA regular troops.
In the US, it is a joke to use regular troops to fight the war on terror, which is to shoot mosquitoes with cannons. What they do is police work.
在过去的40年里，美国有和大国打过一场战争吗？它也没有和大国打仗的经验! ! ！
* The failure of the Ming China proved that the construction of the regular army could not be based on the purpose of fighting the war on terrorism.
* The failure of the Qing China proved that the army should not be light-weight in order to enhance its long-range delivery capability.
When the US F-35s shipborne Stealth aircraft encounters the PLA J-20s heavy Stealth aircraft, it is only possible to be slaughtered unilaterally. (Of course, F-35s have no problem bullying weak countries)
The 5,000-year-old Chinese war experience is countless times more than the 300-year-old United States!
Sun Tzu's Art of War summarized from war experience.
Chiang Seng Erh
Those countries got invaded and bombed by the USA has gained valuable war experience.
The USA gained ZERO experience for bullying those weak countries. The have only gained the experience of enjoying arrogance. without retaliation, easy going kind of games and they are so proud of doing that !
Not true. The first gulf war was important in teaching the US the need for a joint task force (JTF) between air, land and sea. Now every modern armed force has the same concept.
Yes, in the Gulf War, the US military learned to hit a donkey with a missile.
Which is actually a great feat of technological advancement called precision-guided munition. Russian missiles are having problems hitting a football park with a missile, let alone a donkey.
A donkey is worth $50, a missile is worth $5 million, there is no doubt that the United States has made a fortune! 🤣🤣🤣
Chiang Seng Erh
Do it to the Russians now. Hiding behind the fucking Ukraine and call yourself a hero.
Amurica loses most of the wars it started. Especially these days. Why? Because they don't fight for a (just) cause other than for their financial vultures control and its mic's bottom lines. I say they've certainly a lot of experiences in losing wars. I don't see how that's gonna help in any way against major powers.
Your answer is in your question. If they fight for their survival it will be different, because you will have millions more soldiers. They didn't hesitate, like Russians, to stay in front of an MG42. Believe me. Dont underestimate this country. It would be an excess of pride.
I am an American and I approve this message. But here we have been getting slow burn destroyed for the last 30 years and the media and education system are fine tuned to brainwash is and dumb us down. It took me a long time to realize we are the evil empire. That said, we have a very violent culture and love war and our history of wars. I despise war, but I have zero doubt we would absolutely whoop anyone. We have every nationality here and many grow up around guns and weapons that citizens of China would only see in the military. But don't underestimate the people if they got unified.
The problem for the F-35 is that it has a low power radar. The F-22 has a medium power radar at 20Kw. The J-2 has a high power radar at 44Kw.
Not that it matters. The problem for the US and allies is that China can detect stealth fighters no problem. The US can too but an even bigger problem is China’s air to air missiles have twice the range at 300KM. While the AIM-120 is 150KM.
And China has an even longer range air to air missile to take out AWACS and air refueling planes.
Due to the large body of the heavy fighter, the weapon carrying capacity is large, the fuel capacity in the aircraft is large, and the airborne equipment is not only complete in variety but also advanced in technology. Light fighters do not have it, and even the flight endurance is much shorter. The J-31s are carrier-based fighters, similar in size to the F-35s.
But around China, the F-35s must encounter not J-31s, but J-20s land-based fighters
The United States attaches too much importance to the blue water strategy, and the development focus is shipborne and light.
但在中国周边，F-35必须面对的不是 J-31，而是陆基战斗机 J-20
Yes. Even if you want to put the J-20 radar into the F-35, you can’t because it won’t fit. It is 1M across. And the F-35 doesn’t have enough power to power the radar anyway.
And the funny thing is that everyone has skipped mentioning is that the US is developing the AIM-260. The problem is that this missile is 50% longer than the AIM-120.
You might think that that isn’t a problem. Well, it is a huge problem. No pun intended because it will NOT fit in the internal bay of the F-35 or the F-22.
The internal bay of the F-35 is a little over 12 ft long. The AIM-260 is 18 foot long so it would have to be carried outboard…So the solution the Pentagon has come up with is…F-15EX…lol. Carrying the missile under the wing.
【回复】是的。即使你想把 J-20雷达装到 F-35上，也做不到，因为装不下。它有1米宽。而且 F-35也没有足够的动力驱动雷达。
F-35的内舱长是12英尺多一点。AIM-260有18英尺长，所以必须外侧携带... 所以五角大楼给出的解决方案是... F-15EX... 哈哈。把导弹放在机翼下。
Although to be precised the last war that China had been involved in is in 1979 and hence it has been 43 years since it was involved in a war.
Sure you got a point.
But the truth is they have been in a very comprehensive training forever and eventuality hence once a war break out we shall see. All I can say is that the US or whoever that attacked China, it will faced a thousand surprises that China has prepared for you if you dare lift a finger on China.
On technology, nation who made Beidou several times better than GPS, landed on Mars and on the dark side of the moon, and put up a better space center, leader in quantum computer and 5G is at worst on par with the US, but more likely superseded the US.
If go bullying other nations, US is the best at it. I agree 100%, it has a lot of experience as the world's biggest bully. But if it attacks China, China will absolute win and hurt and harm the US.
Be interesting to see the results
Country which has not fought a war in 43 years verses country who has lost every war it has fought over past 43 years
Chiang Seng Erh
USA has a lot of bullying experience to small countries. USA has ZERO experience fighting big guns like Russia and China.
And somehow a country that has enjoyed a meteoric rise in the past few decades, lifting a billion out of absolute poverty, enriching her neighbours as well (ASEAN/East Asia all benefited from China’s rise), all these achieved without dropping a bomb in foreign land, exporting secession, pillaging resources, and blatant interference in other countries domestic politics, is being persistently portrayed as the biggest threat to the world’s today?
Ever heard of a blow fish? They are small but puff themselves up into a huge ball to frighten predators. This is because of Chinese propaganda…threatening posturing huffing and puffing. They woudn’t last two weeks against the US military.
They are not experienced, true, but neither were Canadians until we were sent to Afghanistan in 2003 and we came out on top. The Chinese military has 2 million active and reserve and are equipped with modern weapons and equipment - just as modern as any Western military.
Not all western militares are experienced either. Canada troops have not been in a battle situation since 2014, and only a few NATO troops were in Afghanistan, most NATO troops have little to no experience either.
Having veteran troops who are experiences assists with the strength of your military but it doesn't increase it by a factor of 2 or more. Most US/Canadian/British troops who landed on D Day did not have any experience beyond training, but they did all right and were successful.
Which modern army has the US fought in the last 40 years?
I was in operation desert storm. We ran over the Iraqis like they were school kids.
The US also has no experience fighting a modern army. “Fighting” third world nations does NOT provide you with experience in fighting another first world modern army. It was so ridiculous that at the time, we were going what the heck is this? There was no fight. We simply ran them over and then did the same thing in Iraq War 2.
So why do people believe the US military is strong? because the US has modern equipment. Modern fighters, modern missiles, etc.
And the Pentagon’s simulations show the US losing badly to China if the US attacks China. The Rand Corporation, a Defense contractor also ran independent simulations. They show the same result.
Want to know why? Because it will be a contest of who has more and better missiles. And whoever has more missiles win. Here is a hint. Ships have very limited ammo. An entire nation doesn’t. When a ship’s ammo runs out, you’re just a sitting duck. That isn’t even counting the Chinese hypersonic missiles.
Hello Felix, sorry for the inconvenience but your answers were very interesting, would you mind if we can get along with each other and chat so we can shear some ideas……..?
Now tell me
Which one had any experience in a modern war?
or you call missiles shooting donkeys a modern war?
Don’t believe anything good about China because: China=Bad & Evil… U.S.A=Good & Benevolent.
U.S.A has tons of experiences in fighting wars because they have been in near perpetual wars since becoming a nation in invading, murdering, slaughtering, stealing, robbing, lieing, bombing, destroying, and, in fact, any atrocities that you can think of, the mighty U.S.A has been there, done that.
Yup, indeed, the mighty U.S.A is a destroyer of nations, while China is what? …hmmm… re-builder & reconstruction of nations, which is hardly glamorous at all.
Pakistan has been through civil war in last 40 years with great exp, are they strong?
Afghanistan military force has been fighting for 200 years, are they strong?
USA is so strong and so stuck as well in Afghanistan, are they strong?
Chinese military may or may not be strong, but it’s highly irrelevant to such “experience”.
Despite common misconception, you do NOT need practical experience in fighting wars in order to know how to fight a war.
Practically every country on earth has a military. Has every country been fighting wars? Can none of these countries defend themselves if they haven’t been fighting wars?
The keys to knowing how to fight a war are:
* Study strategy and tactics. That’s what war colleges are for.
* Produce good strategic thinkers and tacticians. Nurture the best talents in your population.
* Train your soldiers well.
* Conduct frequent military exercises and war games.
* Create the best, or at least very good, military technologies.
* Motivation and morale. The Chinese are strongly motivated and very proud of their nation.
Moreover, China has had thousands of years of military history. She has a rich cultural well to draw from.
A good analogy is martial arts, which Asians excel at. A martial artist studies all their life and hopes never to have to use their skills to hurt others.
They train constantly. Some compete in competitions, the equivalent of military exercises and war games.
Most martial artists have never gotten involved in street fights in order to gain “practical experience.”
So, would you care to go up against one of these artists in a life-or-death struggle? Good luck.
You don’t have to believe that China’s military is strong. You can choose to wage war with China and witness the outcome. If you are confident you can defeat China, then show us your outcome.
However, if you are wrong, then you will be humiliated, like USA was in Korea, Vietnam, and Afghanistan.
Show us your stuff…
I am kind of sick of the “ never had a war” , therefore , they must suck at war theory.
Let’s look at USA, in WW2, did you know Germans referred to Americans as the Allies’ Italians ! American army was looked at with complete contempt as soft, inexperienced and backward.
USA was not ready for a World war in 1940.
In the battle of Kesserine Pass, Rommel proven this view of American army and gave the Germans a much needed victory, however, Americans turned these bitter lessons into impressive improvements and turn it around within 6–8 months. By 1944 , the American army in EU was a different army.
Hitler thought Russians were inexperienced and badly led after the Finnish campaign, in fact, he did not even issue winter clothing to his troops in 1941 , thinking the Russian campaign would be over by Dec 1941….
Is Chinese military strong? I certainly believe after 100 years of being abused by the West , they are tremendously motivated to not have that again, take a look what the Chinese did against Japanese with almost zero modern equipment, same during the Korean War.
Now , not only are they motivated, but, they have some of the most advanced weapons available, in any protracted war, the lack of experience can be made up in a very short period of time. Any conventional war with China will not be a short term affair, simply because you can not subdue this nation with just air or naval actions, China will not get into a hot war unless certain lines have been crossed, and when it is, there is no limited war.